podcastconuk: Paul Nicholls

Legal issues facing podcasters.

podcastpaul.com & podlawyer.com

Freedom of speech

There’s a lot to the legal side of podcasting than can I use the Blind Date theme tune. Legislation hasn’t caught up with what’s happening.

Is speech really free? You can say what you like until you tread on someone’s toes. We have a lot more than, say, China. We’re not allowed to say anything we want. It depends on where you say it and who you say it to.

Here in the UK, we are pretty liberal – you can’t take property or life belonging to another, they are policed by the state and we know we can’t do them. but civil actions are taken by the individual.

Defamation – two types – slander, the spoken word & libel, the ‘permanent’ form – in such a way as to ‘arouse feelings of pity’ Mere taunts (name-calling in the heat of the moment) are not enough.

What about podcasting? The law doesn’t move quickly with new technologies. Theatres Act 1968 – actionable if a theatrical production ridicules someone. Broadcasting Act 1990 applies to Radio and TV and treats defamation as a libel. Podcasting doesn’t fit yet.

There is no definitive answer, but if you defame somebody it would be actionable, but might take a lot more argument than in other media.

He’s had to deal with a defamation case already. Someone had talked to someone in a pub on a podcast and had interviewed someone else who referred to him as “that bloke who takes his clothes off down the arts centre”. Ended up not being defamation.

It’s not going to be a police matter, but individuals or corporations might sue.

Evidence needed – implying a criminal act punishable by imprisonment, implying sexual/contagious disease, imputation of sexual unchastity (for women), disparaging in office or profession (lowering their standing in the eyes of right-thinking people).

Innuendo – not just smutty eg Tolly vs JS Fry & Sons 1931. They used him in a chocolate ad which Tolly said prostituted his amateur status.

You can’t defame a class of people, I have to be able to draw an inference about an individual.

Defences – why do they go into such huge detail when reporting about people committing offences? It’s to avoid defaming other people who could be confused. If in trouble, take advice. Offers to make amends and limit damage, what you said might be justifiable or fair comment & in the public interest.

Don’t forget incitement or conspiracy (eg to corrupt public morals) So basically think before you open your gob and if you get a writ, take advice.

Q: jurisdiction? England & Wales applies to us. But it depends.

Q: Can you get legal aid for defamation. You are seen as guilty? Yes that’s right. That’s why we have no win, no fee. The burden of proof is on the other party.

Q:

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podcastcon uk: James Cridland

Podcasting & Commercial Radio
Head of New media strategy at Virgin Radio

wearing a firefox t-shirt so obviously one of us!

four stations in the brand portfolio: Virgin Radio, Xtreme, Groove, Classic Rock.

Thinks that ‘amateur’ is the wrong word for podcasting.

One station, one platform => one station many platforms.

Right now 26 differnet platforms, all sorts of internet ones plus cable tv & fm & am etc

Nothing new in portable audio distribution – 1958 transistor radio – the difference is that we can now get things that we want, when we want them. Virgin first to create a daily podcast in March.

Chop out the music, partly because of rights, but also because the personailities are what people want to hear (sounds like a lame excuse to me – do people really want this stuff?) but it’s still full of timechecks. 85,000 downloads a month?! who?

Announcing today for October ‘best of the guests’ and unsigned bands on Xtreme…and possibly Vic Reeves – Big Night in on Wednesday – going to wait and see how that one might turn out..

limited advertising within each podcast eg Special Constables, Orange, Mastercard and Expedia. Trying to be intelligent and place carefully and relevantly (still bloody advertising though).

Shows Top Subscribed Podcasts with Pete & Geoff at No 1 before they’d actually released one.

itunes effect – before itunes 2278 over three weeks, but with iTunes 3644 in one week.

Threats: Nokia 8310, a portable music device. 77% use it to listen to FM radio. Nokia 6610 83% listening. Says this isn’t a threat to them (yeah right). Live TV and DAB stations.

41% of 6300 Virgin website users had a portable media player of which 32% had an iPod and 68% had other types.

Plays out with Pete & Geoff on Mummy, am I ugly? as example of how to raise revenue through linking in to your website (and a way of taking the piss out of your audience)

http://james.cridland.net

Q: I don’t think you get it. It’s about control. Don’t think about it simply as distribution – it’s about control of what you get, when you want it but we’re all struggling to understand what it means.

Q: Matt Gibbs, any plans for charging for podcasts or is it all ad sales. We never have charged for anything. Issues – eg can’t get round iPod DRM. We’ll be interested when we can do it.

Q: any research on when people are actually hearing them? No. Isn’t that the most important thing for advertisers though? Nearly everyone in the room listens both on computer and on a portable music player. Everyone assumes that people only listen in mobile scenario.

Q: You’re in a great position to make the point on rights to the music industry. We’re waiting for DRM.

Q: Podlisteners are expecting something else. I don’t agree. People want to hear stuff that they’re familiar with.

podcastcon uk: Milverton Wallace

Image(191)Podcasts for Educational use

1 teacher and two university lecturers in the room. Mmmmmm..

Technologies challenge traditional ways of transmitting knowledge.

Last October, he’d just got into podcasting. A friend had a big contract with a south london borough for remedial education. The borough decided they had too many unemployed uneducated kids. So they got loads of hardware and software (even quarkexpress and adobe!) equipped a room with state of the art stuff. Big opening ceremony – everyone there. had a phone call saying kids didn’t turn up for the lectures in this hi-tech wonderland.

Looked again – it’s just another classroom – nice carpets & cool kit, but still a classroom and these kids are those who rebelled against classrooms. That model of encouraging people to learn doesn’t work for a significant minority of kids. Milverton said give ‘em ipods so they can hang on the corners pretending to listen to music, but really listening to a maths lesson. Not taken seriously – now closed the facility. An illustration of how difficult it is to get established professionals to accept what’s new and experiment with stuff.

Took 5 years for department to take web-authoring seriously. The kids came and the rooms were full, because they saw the future, they’re smart, they know what’s coming. Now very few are even using blogs (x-warwick)

Getting in touch with community nurses – difficult to communicate with people who for some reason don’t want to turn on their phones. Aaaah podcasting. So much could be done with simple cheap technology in the NHS, but instead they pour money down the drain on ERP systems and the like.

Teaching children of refugees to speak English. Some kids aren’t so good at face to face learning. Podcasts great for re-inforcing. Big problem encouraging teachers to deal with children in the context of a culture that kids understand.

Delivering instructions to learners – it’s a one-way thing, so this is a bit of a barrier (or at least a weakness) You can’t have direct feedback and that needs to be dealt with.

What about people selling audio files of lectures? Nothing new. Same as when newspapers panicked about losing advertising revenue and just dumped same content onto the website. Didn’t excite anybody to just see a facsimile of newsprint. Important not to just reproduce in a different media – look at how to create something new and interesting out of it.

Podcasting the next big thing for training? A company saved 30% of training budget that was previously going on cd and dvd burning. But also the ability to encourage people to create their own space and feel included. Tagging as a form of knowledge management, allow people to create their own environment and subject area communities.

Large-scale experiment at Duke University – gave everyone an iPod (discounted from Apple) Review showed that it was used for recording lectures, but also sharing their own comments about lectures, students learn more from each other than from their lecturers! Learning also accelerated by creating their own learning environments, learning from each other, from their peers, using the technology for real purposes and learning much faster as a result.

Q: what’s your job? Journalism lecturer at City University for 10 years. Only has weblog. Ran Netmedia conference. Now creating a forum for people who innovate in digital media can move on and get financial support to build businesses, working with UCL. But also just a space to engage each other about innovation in the space and how we encourage it here.

Q: Any directories for this sort of content? No, but we’re working on it. (it will create itself, or the students will create it for themselves).

Q: Work with your local high-school

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podcastcon uk: Mark Hunter

Image(189)Podsafe Music Network

In the break, promo from Roger Smalls.

Mark does the tartanpodcast – what do you hang on a wall? Wallpaper & a picture – art (and tony blair) no doubt we’ll hear in a minute what that was all about.

4th out of 1800 music podcasts on podcastalley.com.

Listen to music podcasts and hear music that you wouldn’t have heard before. Start a music podcast. Use music in your podcast.

What’s more important, the wallpaper or the artwork? Obviously the art, that’s the bit you want people to focus on. Sadly music usually becomes the backdrop or wallpaper for what you’re doing, rather than the art.

Mark’s trying to reverse that trend. Soon after he started he got a cd in the post, gripped almost straight away. Wanted to tell as many people as possible about this great new sound. He’s lucky in that he has the tartanpodcast as an outlet for that.

Shows video (audio only!) of Alistair Bishop (who’s cd that was) talking about the huge response (including CD sales) he’s had from all over the world who’ve heard the podcast.

Shows podsafe music network. Search UI with Artist, Song, Keywords, Influences, Genre, State, Country (at least 10 pages of bands from UK) all of these people have already given you permission to play them in a podcast.

You get a playlist page from which you can download.

Q: anyone doing bespoke music for podcasts? Yes, they’d bite your hand off. Courteous to give credit

Q: will it always be free (it’s by podshow)? As far as we know, based on ad revenue.

Q: a market for professional podcasts who need to cut costs or don’t want to worry about permissions. Yes, often it’s better quality and more interesting (and happy for you)

Q: any protection for people who might not like how it’s used? See terms & conditions

Q: what happens if people get signed? don’t know yet

Q: can the music be used in other media? Should have read the terms & conditions.

Q: has anyone been signed as a result. no but some interest from labels and other side projects 3 have been offered film music contracts and one for a video game.

Q: do you like the name podsafe (paul doesn’t). Mark doesn’t like podcast – prefers independent.

Q: are you targeting a radio audience? No, music lovers who really listen to music – he doesn’t want to produce more wallpaper. heard from a commercial show in Glasgow – he said he wouldn’t be able to mention Mark’s name as he’s a competitor.

Q: Can Virgin use podsafe music? maybe.

Q: are you thinking of becoming a label? No. You could, but he’s not interested.

Q: how has becoming a member of podsquad affected you? I’m not an employee of podshow, but I have a contract with them. Very north american (no offense)

Q: how do you sustain it & earn a living? No avenue for it now, but opportunities coming. In the meantime I don’t watch telly!

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podcastcon uk: chris ritke

Podcasting technologies

Can’t watch tv, can’t listen to radio x-NPR, no magazines. Doesn’t know what to do in the evenings. Got on internet, found blogs, found audio in blogs, video in blogs. Found a knitting blog and thought if there’s knitting there must be loads of cool stuff.

Created 49media (what’s on the web tonight, honey?) Really cool stuff that’s not on mainstream media. Browse around and see what’s new. So what is relevant? And how do we know? Each person knows what’s relevant for themselves so it’s not so much about what’s cool out there, but you can find out what’s relevant to you.

Shows most recent searches – on image, audio & video latest: Korean, ONR thing (?), Kelly Clarkson Because of You

Can go down to just image or just audio or just video.

Trying to do categorisation entertainment, tech, variety, arts, music, personal, news & politics, hobbies, food&drink, sports, society, places, business, other, adult.

Plus Popular, will give you most popular in each media group.

So he started going to SF meetup and asked if he should do a podcast so he started interviewing people who are making media that shows up in 49media.

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podcastcon: Neville Hobson

Image(188)Podcasting for Business

Neville has taken Hugh’s “was it good for you” cartoon and replaced “read my blog” with “listen to my podcast”

Most people in the room are podcasters – just a few have one’s that are business podcasts.

What is a podcast? Digital audio file, typically MP3, radio show format, time-shifted, delivered by rss, auto-sync with portable digital player, complemented by show notes.

Little bit of history – only a year old, but just about to really take off – partly iTunes driven. Mainstream media has embraced podcasting. In US all the major broadcasters are podcasting and so are newspapers.

For Immediate Release – Neville’s PR show with Shel Holz. Started 3rd January (3 days after me!) twice weekly show all over skype between Amsterdam and California, ie they make a free phone call – averaging 500 downloads of 60-80 minute chat show, stuff that listeners are interested in. Increasingly listeners are providing audio clips – now 4 international correspondents, 1 in Australia, 3 in USA.

Not about the numbers – 500 per show is really cool.

Great for pushing up the search engine rankings – which leads to interest from mainstream media. New Scientist for example were interested in how they used skype. Businesses want to know what kind of audiences you can reach and how you interact.

Who’s doing it? Mostly in the states – cisco oracle ibm disney virgin atlantic nasa jupiterresearch purina warnerbrothers macromedia gm (one of them does an embarrassingly bad one that sounds like it’s done in the toilet)

Anyone heard of GM podcast? Only a couple in the room. Podcast is an extension of the well-known blog – amateurly produced (clip coming) USAF two airmen talking about what they’re up to – an additional channel, not replacing something. They started the way we all do – laptop and a copy of audacity, but they tried it and they got feedback and improved what they were doing.

Who’s making money? How are they doing it? Someone’s going to do it sooner or later. If people like what they hear, they’ll listen. Maybe some people will pay for a subscription.

Why? It’s an easy & complementary extension of existing communication activities, an appropriate channel to market, can reach niche audiences otherwise unreachable, attract new, younger customers, create buzz, get people talking about you, be perceived to be at the leading edge, be the first to market with a cool new medium (eg Heineken).

The full spectrum: External – Markeing & Financial and Internal – Employee Engagement & Team Building. All a bit like the use of blogs – informality and using a different way to engage with customers. Plus it’s dead easy to do – not broadcast quality, but for 99% that’s good enough. Might be ignored by the majority, but could also get a small group of influencers.

A financial one – head of investor relations produces a weekly review. CEOs do a podcast – chitchat for employees – easier than him (!) doing a blog. Good for reaching out to new people in different ways. Sales director – occasional tips for a geographically dispersed sales team.

20 creative ideas from Kevin Dugan

Seeing dramatic growth. Feedburner: feeds with podcast enclosures groiwing by 1500 per month so over 16,000 by end 2005. Apple: 7 million subscriptions since June, 15,000 podcasts adding 1,000 new ones each week. 21 different languages.

Lots of ooohs and aaaahs at the guy (Phil in a blue t-shirt) with a black iPod nano.

Growth drivers: It’s easy; It’s inexpensive; It’s portable; It’s available (ie rich-content podcast directories and increasing availability of high-speed broadband).

It’s just the beginning (from a business point of view) Videocasting will be next – it has the same growth drivers

Q: how is Neville’s remix of Hugh’s card compatible with Hugh’s CC No Derivs licence?

Plays: GM Corvette, USAF around the air force (cheeeeeeeesy), Paris Hilton (pukecast), NASA from the Space Shuttle (geeks love this one), IBM (with crap music), Clive Anderson on Cuba (virgin atlantic travel podcasts)

Deirdre – how is videocasting different from video-blogging and points out need to pay attention (eg when driving). Neville, all probably the same thing, but they’re different too – different standrs emerging. It is the next big thing

Question about bandwidth particularly for vlogging – can be (the sponsor) say anything. Lots of new deals coming in, experiments with different models of hosting.

Q: will we generate our own revenue? Yes, but we don’t know how? Jupiterresearch or companies like them that already have clients who pay for information will also provide it in this format. Sooner or later.

Q: how much time does it take? Too much – prep time is 1hr, show 60-80, Neville does the show notes – twice as long as the show so about four to five hours per show, up to 10 hours a week.

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